Sun Java questions

[v_v]

Just what does the Java Runtime 6 (JRE 6) do for a computer user? I am aware that several people here at Freedomlist (plodr and more recently Corrine also) do not have Java loaded on their machines and they indicate that they do not seem to be missing anything. But if that is the case then what is it that Java does and why do various browsers like Firefox and Opera seem indicate a need for the Java program?

A more specific question would be, if I decide to uninstall JRE 6, what will happen when I come across a web page that makes heavy use of javascript? For instance, my main email provider, Juno, makes heavy use of javascript. Will not having JRE 6 installed cause problems with the use of Juno and other such web sites? I suspect that there is some distinction between the use of javascript and the Java program that I am unfamiliar with. But any light shed on this issue would be appreciated.

v_v
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Justice, Equity, and Meaningful, Productive, and Fulfilling Lives to All Earthlings

[techie]

I think some of your question may be answered here.

MS used to provide updates for MS Java Virtual machines.

Some MS word programs, Open Office are Dependant upon JAVA depending how it is being used.

 http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/java/default.mspx 

[v_v]

You are right. The material that you linked to at Microsoft ("  http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/java/default.mspx  ") did answer (or remind me about) some of my questions. It also made it apparent that I was not clear in my questions due possibly to my lack of understanding of the relationships between JAVA (sort of a programming language as I understand it), javascript (the actual writing or code of JAVA {?}), and the Java Runtime Environment program version 6 (JRE6).

So let me try to rephrase what I am looking for. Essentially I suppose that I wish to uninstall JRE6 permanently. What I do not understand is "what will be the result of such an uninstallation?" I realize that JAVA or javascript is virtually inescapable in using the internet or in certain programs. BUT, is it necessary to have JRE6 installed in order for JAVA or javascript to work correctly, whether that "working correctly" means in a computer-resident progam (such as Open Office) or in an internet web page accessed through a browser.

To say it more sweetly and bluntly: if I uninstall JRE6 can I go on living a normal computer and internet life? (Smile)

v_v
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Justice, Equity, and Meaningful, Productive, and Fulfilling Lives to All Earthlings

[Corrine]

Java and Javascript are not the same. Here's a general explanation:

 http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Differences_betw...ava_script 

Quote:

There's a world of difference between the two. Javascript is used for front-end web development while Java can only be used as a back-end language within a web environment. Java doesn't need a web browser to compile and execute like Javascript does. Java is compiled prior to runtime while Javascript is compiled at runtime. The syntax/reserved-words are also different. There's many more differences if you go and do some research on the two languages.

A more complex explanation is here:  http://www.htmlgoodies.com/beyond/javascript/article.php/3470971  and additional information in Wikipedia:
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaScript  :

Quote:

JavaScript is a scripting language used to enable programmatic access to objects within other applications. It is primarily used in the form of client-side JavaScript for the development of dynamic websites.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_ (programming_language):

Quote:

Java is a programming language originally developed by James Gosling at Sun Microsystems and released in 1995 as a core component of Sun Microsystems' Java platform.

Confusing, isn't it.

Secunia Software Inspector is an example of web applet that requires JRE to run. JRE is also needed for many on-line games.

I have not installed JRE on this laptop that I got two years ago. I don't believe that I am missing anything. Since SunMicrosystems got their act together when JRE 6u11 was released, if you run JavaRa to ensure all the old versions are gone, you should be fine. Of course, you could always uninstall it and if the results are not as expected, then install the latest update.
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Take a walk through my Security Garden

[v_v]

Corrine,

Thank you for all of the explanatory web page links. What I read makes sense, but don't expect me to be able to pass the "test!" (Smile) Still though while Java is different from javascript, what is the relationship between JRE6 and these two languages?

I have not had any recent problems with JRE6 remnants, and overall I guess I do not really have any major complaints about how effectively JRE6 works. But in the most recent versions Sun has included the "jqs.exe" as a part of the JRE package. This little executable takes up memory space and it seems to run in the background, occasionally and seemingly contributing to my computer crashing.

I have tried to deactivate or eliminate this "jqs.exe" using the suggestions at the Sun web site and other web sites. NONE of the suggestions seem to work on my machine. When "jqs.exe" appears to be eliminated, it soon returns for one reason or another. Apparently various programs (I suspect browsers mostly) seem to call the little executable back into being, that is, back into the resident memory.

Having said all of that and after having tried virtually every suggestion that my searches could find, the one clear way to eliminate this little executable is to eliminate JRE6 itself. This is the basic issue behind my questions about uninstalling JRE6.

I can certainly do without Secunia and I am not a game player. So the bulk of my concerns have to do with how many other "web applets" (as you referred to them) need JRE6 in order to perform correctly.

In my web surfing I think that maybe only three times a year or so do I ever come across a web page that triggers the JRE6 console to load and do its thing. So if it is only a matter of less than five instances a year that I will actually need JRE6 then it seems that I can live without it.

Oh well, I guess really the only way to know for sure if I can get along without JRE6 is to uninstall it and see what happens. But sometimes a person wants to "look before leaping!" (Smile)

v_v
_________________
Justice, Equity, and Meaningful, Productive, and Fulfilling Lives to All Earthlings

[techie]

This may answer your with the Open Office and JAVA question.

 http://user-faq.openoffice.org/faq/ar01s04.html#id2810973 

I know that Firefox has a Java console built into it. You can go to your Tools, add ons, plugins and disable the Java Platform.

This is quoted from the download referenced below

Java software for your computer, or the Java Runtime Environment, is also referred to as the Java Runtime, Runtime Environment, Runtime, JRE, Java Virtual Machine, Virtual Machine, Java VM, JVM, VM, or Java download.

 http://www.java.com/en/download/inc/windows_new_xpi.jsp 

[v_v]

Thanks techie for the browser plug-in locations. That did give me some leads to try to follow up on. However eventually I was able to determine that the browser plug-ins were not at fault.

After much frustrating experimentation I think that I have found the solution to my "jqs.exe" issue. The Java plug-in related to JRE6 was and is definitely connected with the Firefox, SeaMonkey, and Internet Explorer browsers (but not Opera). However it was not the browsers that triggered the loading of "jqs.exe" into the resident memory. Actually I do not know exactly what triggered that loading. All I know now is how I stopped it.

In all of the help suggestions that I found on the internet the main emphasis was to go to the Java Control Panel (accessed through the Windows Control Panel), click on the Advanced tab, expand the Miscellaneous setting, and then to uncheck the "Java Quick Starter" ("jqs") checkbox. Perhaps a reboot of the computer was also suggested. However this DID NOT work on my machine no matter how many efforts that I made to do this. Unchecking the checkbox did eliminate "jqs.exe" from the memory immediately, but it would always return when a browser was opened or when simply switching from an administrator account to a regular user account.

Other suggestions were to eliminate the Java plug-ins from the various browsers. I was on my way to doing this but for various reasons my intuition told me that this would not solve the problem.

What did solve the problem was to boot up "msconfig.exe" in the administrative account, using the Start button, then clicking Run. In MSConfig there was no "jqs.exe" in the Start-up tab. However in the Services tab there was a "Java Quick Starter" listed with a checkbox. When I unchecked this box and rebooted, the "jqs.exe" disappeared from the resident memory and has stayed gone. Even with the Java plug-ins still in the various browsers, the "jqs.exe" does not get triggered. So obviously something in JRE6 sets up an automatic service in Windows 2000, and even though Sun (the maker of Java) says that the Java Control Panel should be able to disable this automatic service, on my Windows 2000 computer Sun's suggestion did and does not work. Somehow one has to find in Windows where there is an option to disable the service, and I managed to do so through MSConfig. It is possible that other programs might work just as well (perhaps the Services tab of WinPatrol could be used in the same manner).

At any rate I have detailed my solution here in case someone else might wish to eliminate the "jqs.exe" executable from their resident memory and has not been able to find a workable solution.

With my solution accomplished I no longer have an immediate need to uninstall JRE6. So I will allow it to remain on my machine, and this case is closed! Thank you Sherlock, and hold the applause! (Smile)

v_v
_________________
Justice, Equity, and Meaningful, Productive, and Fulfilling Lives to All Earthlings

[plodr]

If you run WinPatrol or MikeLin's Control Panel, you can turn off Java Quick Starter from rearing its ugly head.
MikeLin's program has stopped Real Player (when I had it), Adobe QuickTime and WebShots from being allowed to run at startup.

[digger]

plodr wrote:

If you run WinPatrol or MikeLin's Control Panel, you can turn off Java Quick Starter from rearing its ugly head. MikeLin's program has stopped Real Player (when I had it), Adobe QuickTime and WebShots from being allowed to run at startup.

The conventional way is to go to control panel -> administrative tools -> services

That and msconfig are the two built-in ways to control services. I forget the reason, but it is generally considered safer to use administrative tools, rather than msconfig

Mike Lin's startup control panel can only control services on win9x.
 http://www.mlin.net/StartupCPL.shtml 

Quote:

system services that are started before the user logs in. This appears only in Win9x; on NT/2000/XP, use the Services control panel, or the Services item in Computer Management.

[plodr]

Digger, if you note I'm not talking specifically about system services. I mentioned Real, QuickTime and WebShots which are not system services.
 http://majorgeeks.com/Startup_Control_Pane...d4359.html 
it works on all versions of windows.

[digger]

plodr wrote:

Digger, if you note I'm not talking specifically about system services.

plodr wrote:

If you run WinPatrol or MikeLin's Control Panel, you can turn off Java Quick Starter from rearing its ugly head.

Java Quick Starter is a service.