NetZero on Linux/ cheapest access to internet

[Newboy]

As y'all may have surmised, my ever-so-problematic laptop finally met the great silicon maker in the sky. Which is a shame, since the ONLY thing I've been trying to do the past few months is make a F@#$%^&* backup, and pitch the bloody thing!

As a replacement, I've opted for one of those teeny-tiny CD/DVD-free microlaptops. I'm sure I'll get sick of typing on it fast, but given that I'm about to MOVE and was looking to lighten my load to begin with, this suits me right now. Plus they're DIRT CHEAP.

Choices are ACER/ASUS machine running XP for $299 or same running Linux for $199. Now, I am game to try Linux (especially since XP has been the BANE of my existence!), but just how difficult to use IS it?

In particular, can NetZero run on it? I get conflicting answers on NZ forums (fori?). Either it once COULD and now CAN'T...or it once COULDN'T but now CAN. I'm hoping for the latter.

The diff between $199 and $299 is HUGE for a PC which I am essentially considering "disposable" (I intend to get a "real" machine once settled in my new life), but if I have to start PAYING for dialup, well then, the whole $100 will be moot.

BTW, the machines have WIFI, so I can meander into a Starbucks, library, etc. to DL the original NZ dialer. Or attach an offboard DVD drive or sumpin. Question is simply whether said dialer (NZ Linux) EXISTS.

Thanks!

[OG1]

NO. I would set up a DUN with  www.all2easy.net  ($4.95) or  www.dialup.cc  ($7.99) on your netbook. Cheaper and NO software to connect.

[curious john]

The 10hr free version of Netzero, no, there is no linux version. And I havent really heard of anybody making it work under WINE which is a translator/emulator program that lets you run at least some windows programs under linux. Do your homework if its possible, probably somebody has done it.

The pay version of Netzero, yes there is a linux version. However it was designed specifically for lindows/linspire version of linux. Linux is linux but might or might not take some effort to make it run with another flavor of linux. quick google and seems it is a .deb file so should install (perhaps with little massaging) on any debian based distribution. And there are un-deb programs to disassemble the deb pkg into its component files if you use a .rpm based distribution or some mini linux without either. See linux isnt monotlithic like windows, there are lots of variations and ways of doing things. And adding software can be anywhere from very easy to an extreme pain in the rear depending... Just think of older windows systems and programs where you had to track down rare dll's or manually install components of the software.

Frankly there are much better isps for less money that dont require running proprietory software. Most isps if you dont know, use whatever dialer comes with your operating system and you just enter username, password, and local number for the isp.

[blsJason]

I haven't done much of any research on netbooks/microlaptops, but do they even have a built-in 56K modem? I don't think they have very many (if any) expansion ports, and even if so you probably wouldn't want to have to lug around an external modem everywhere.
_________________
Poetworld subscriber 2002-2012.
Don't buy Clearwire!

[plodr]

ASUS' eeepc do not have a modem. There is a port for one but nothing wired up so you can not go dialup. You need wireless or wired highspeed.
I'm not sure about the Acers, Dells or HPs options for netbooks.
Let me just say that dialup on any linux distro can be very hard to use. You need to know what chip is used in the modem and then go in search of a driver for it.

[curious john]

There are mini usb modems. I think just about any computer unless absolutely ancient has usb. I forget but seems like there is a thread on usb modem somewhere. And if you are just using the laptop as a substitute desktop and not lugging it around, there are cheap usb-serial adapter cables that can convert plain old external serial modem into a usb modem though you still have to use the power brick that plugs into wall. I picked up couple mini usb modems very cheap on ebay and got them to work, but on my desktop mostly use a serial modem with usb converter cable. On my old laptop, use either a card bus modem or usually the Boost mobile cell phone for a connection.

With the mini laptops you are really stuck needing usb dialup modem though if dialup modem isnt built in.

[plodr]

I can tell you from the posts on the eeepc users forum, these mini USB modems don't work on the eeepc. It all looks great on the selling page and users have bought them, only to discover they can't get them to work. On a more mainstream distro, they may work. I can't speak for other netbooks because I have no experience and haven't even looked at forums for other products.

[curious john]

The Zoom mini usb modem 3095, you have to compile the driver module specifically for that linux distribution and linux kernel. They work great once you do that. Its just a PITA especially the linux on the eeepc doesnt come with the files necessary to compile installed. There are some precompiled modules for specific releases of bigger distributions like Ubuntu.

However if you go look there are now other mini modems. One in particular U.S. Robotics 5637 is definitely known to be plug and play on modern linux distributions. Look in current eeepc forums and I think you will find it mentioned.

As to the usb converter cables to make old serial modem into usb, there are two different chip sets used on cheap ones. One (pl2303) has been supported since like linux kernel 2.2, so will work on just about any distribution you could want to use. The other (ch341) not until very recent versions of the 2.6 kernel unless you specifically patch the kernel of older distributions to support its use. Think I mentioned this here somewhere in an old thread. Save me looking up the numbers again. Definitely go for the pl2303 chipset if you can.

[curious john]

I will add that unless you need a very small laptop for some specific reason, you can find a used laptop that will outperform it cheaper. Dont think my eyes could tolerate very extensive use of tiny screen.

[Newboy]

Thanks all, especially CurJo....

Best Buy insists the modem port is ready to go, but I'm certainly going to demand proof before buying, now that you've all pointed that out. Personally, I find it odd to have WiFi -- still an "advanced" feature in my c2004 brain -- on something which can't even read a CD!

Anyway, I can see from the responses above that there's no way in Hades I'm going to get the NZ dialer to run on Linux. Perhaps someone else could, but not me. So it's the $299 XP models or nothing.

Funny, just as I ponder this, Dell has joined the fray (latest BB flyer) -- 8.1" screen, running XP home, $299. Same stats as the ACER/ASUS ones (same PC repackaged?), but I've had good luck with Dell in the past, so there's a certain value in the name. Either way, I hate to blow the extra hundred, seeing as "real" laptops start at $349, but oh well, as I said, there is a value to things being small/light right now. Were I "settled", there'd be no choice whatsoever between a $299 "toy" and a $349 barebones laptop which my FINGERS could actually FIT ON....

BTW, I should have included "Juno" as part of my original query. While it isn't IDEAL (being limited to 10 hrs/mo, unlike NZ), it is indeed an OPTION. Any chance that JUNO magically works on linux, unlike NZ????

(No, I didn't think so. It's $299 and XP, I guess....)

[Newboy]

QUICK FOLLOWUP: Does "Linspire" cost money?

One discussion of the matter implies that Linspire is a patch to get NZ progs to run on Windows, but if it costs close to that hundred differential to begin with, then I guess the issue is moot from the gitgo.

Is the whole diff between a $199/Linux machine and a $299/XP machine the cost of XP? I keep looking for some glaring diff in their OTHER stats, but afaict, that's the only diff. Could adding windows really account for a 50% price hike????

Anyway, even WITH Linspire, the feedback I'm seeing for NZ is far from...um..."linspirational":

 https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/g...ap-227556/ 

Hmmm. Wonder if Juno is any better....

[Newboy]

QUICK FOLLOWUP 2:

CurJo, pls have a look at the following and tell me if it looks feasible:

 https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/s...ero-628659 

I.e., whether I can go ahead and get that $199/Linux machine and expect all of this to work. (assuming there's even a MODEM...)

Thanks!

[Of course, there's a bigger questions as to whether I can FOLLOW directions which are 99% incomprehensible to me...but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it....]

[plodr]

Quote:

Best Buy insists the modem port is ready to go

if it's an eeepc, you won't be the first person that has been lied to and come home with the netbook then discovered there is no modem, only a port for one that doesn't work because it is not wired.

Linspire, previously known as Lindows, was bought out by Xandros in 2008
 http://www.linspire.com/ 
Xandros is a paid distro. There might be some sort of live version but the normal OS is not free.
ASUS put a hybrid of Xandros and Debian etch on the eeepc and later models can now use cnr (click and run) to install programs.
Linspire is no longer functioning so I wouldn't count on much help.

If you don't have another computer, then I would advise against getting a netbook with linux as your only computer. You will get very frustrated real fast and want to throw the computer out the window.

Got a link for the $199 linux and the $299 XP computers so I can tell you what the differences are?

[curious john]

Quote:

Netzero dialup a brief how to that works. updated 7/26/08 1. java runtime must be installed. 2. install netzero.deb 3. make a link between the port where your modem is physically located and /dev/modem 4. to execute, create a launcher with the following on the command line: "gksudo /opt/nzclient/runclient.sh" without the quotation marks; or log in as root and use the launcher that netzero provides 5. to hangup click on netzero launcher, at the login screen click "cancel" 6. To save your password: enter password, slect save, click the cancel button 7. If a "server not found" error occurs after getting connected edit /etc/resolv.conf with the following: nameserver 64.136.52.73 nameserver 64.136.44.73 and make sure /etc/resolv.conf permission for others is read only. notes: 1.for non debian distros convert netzero.deb to your package format using a converter program such as the alien program, or extract out data.tar/nzclient and copy nzclient to the /opt directory. 2. I've currently tried using netzero on ubuntu7.10, puppy linux, DSL, and slack12. puppy linux was the easiest. just install java-1.6u5.pet,extract out netzero.deb and put nzclient folder in /opt. drag the root/desktop/netzero file to the desktop and edit the command to gksudo /opt/nzclient/runclient.sh and your done. The slack12 came with java runtime. I just log in as root start netzero logout then login as user. to install java jre-6u7-linux-i586.bin on DSL I followed the tutorial by kevcart3 in the tutorials forums. 3. ON th xubuntu a. I had to install java runtime jre and all it's depends on ubuntu downloading the files using my windows system. I installed everything including netzero.deb using the GDebi installer b. here is a list of packages i had to install and the order installed them in. gcc-3.3-base_3.3.6-15_i386.deb java-common_0.25_all.deb libstdc++5_3.3.6-15_i386.deb odbcinst1debian1_2.2.11-13_i386.deb unixodbc_2.2.11-13_i386.deb html2text_1.3.2a-3_i386.deb gettext_0.16.1-1_i386.deb intltool-debian_0.35.0+20060710.1_all.deb po-debconf_1.0.8_all.deb debhelper_5.0.42_all.deb also reqires files off the instalation cd devscripts_2.9.26_i386.deb equivs_2.0.7_all.deb: used to make the fakesun-java6 bin package fakesun-java6-bin_6-00-2~bpo.1_i386.deb: created by the equivs package sun-java6-jre_6-00-2~bpo.1_all.deb sun-java6-bin_6-00-2~bpo.1_i386.deb netzero.deb

Yes probably work. And the author above is a Puppy user. I can say that on Puppy it would be fairly easy from steps he gives. On whatever hybrid version of linux is on eeepc, not sure. I have no experience with eeepc nor their version of linux. I think its debian based so you should be able to install the .deb pkg of Netzero software with their pkg manager. It should also tell you of any other pkgs you need to install to make it function.

Freespire is the free version of Linspire, think it may now be based on Ubuntu??? I tried downloading it about year ago on wifi connection at library, but either it was very slow server or somehow the library throttled the connection to that server for some reason, it was going to take hours. In contrast, I downloaded Ubuntu in like 45 minutes and Puppy Linux in like half hour or less.

See real problem is you have some crazy unsupported version of linux on this computer. I dont have an eeepc so no idea what that linux distribution is like. As I keep saying different distributions of linux can differ significantly in procedures. Its not like windows where its all from one corporation and all same. I use Puppy Linux full time with a XP partition just to run couple programs offline. There is a user modified variation of Puppy specifically intended to run on the eeepc with all hardware working out of box. Its also faster than whats on there according to those in Puppy community.

As to modem, again check out the USR 5637 mini usb modem or Dell mini usb modem. Looks just like the Zoom mini though its different color. People say it works plug and play with no hassle on any modern distribution of linux. In older Puppy or some linux distributions, might have to do a modprobe and make sure there is an ttyACM in the /dev directory.

I wont give links but there are links to mini cut down versions of XP on net. I use one to run those couple programs I mention. Called tinyXP_rev5. Other than taking some effort to get printer to work, it does ok and lot faster on old computer than full XP. Includes windows installer so should be easy though may not have all drivers you need. A google should find it for you. Just saying if you need windows thats an option. It should handle the Netzero software. And if you buy an eepc with linux, think they include a windows driver cd if you want to install windowsXP.

I am still not sure why you are limited to Netzero. Some people used to get stuck with AOL in some rural areas just cause they were only game in town and offered some unique pop numbers, but Netzero has no unique pop numbers, they just buy from the same wholesalers like every other retail isp. Look at say vtisp.com and bet they have same numbers locally for you. They are third the price of Netzero and dont require you run any particular software.

[curious john]

Newboy wrote:

BTW, I should have included "Juno" as part of my original query. While it isn't IDEAL (being limited to 10 hrs/mo, unlike NZ), it is indeed an OPTION. Any chance that JUNO magically works on linux, unlike NZ????

Whoa, we are talking apples and oranges here. The 10hr "free" Netzero and Juno are same software. However the "free" Netzero/Juno software and the paid Netzero/Juno software are two different things. There IS NO linux version of the free software. The linspire paid Netzero/Juno software is only for paid accounts, it wont get you access to the free 10 hours.

As I said in my first post, if you are wanting to use the free Netzero/Juno software, its theoretically possible to do so under WINE the "emulator" program that lets some windows software run under linux. However unless you find website telling you how in blow by blow description then I would bet you arent going to do it. Update: wont work  http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?...p;iId=1724 

If you are going to rely on the free 10hr then you most likely will need windows of some kind. I did do search and the tinyXP is now version 9 and now optionally includes just about any windows driver you can think of. It is pirated software so if you are worried about taking food out of mouth of big bills children or worried about gestopo, then you should meekly buy a legit copy of windows for a mere $150 and be happy...... However think any version of tinyXP should run the Netzero/Juno free 10hr software, even the early "beast edition" which is truly tiny. Printer support is disabled in beast edition and thats reason I went to version 5.

Again a full year (upto 150hr per month) of vtisp.com is only $40 and whole lot less hassle than running the 10hr Netzero/Juno software. Whole lot cheaper than buying copy of windows.

[plodr]

Quote:

Freespire is the free version of Linspire

The freespire repository doesn't get updated; I don't know if that's because of the Xandros buyout or not. Someone who was running it at another forum I participate in, liked it but finally dumped it because nothing was getting updated.

[curious john]

plodr wrote:

[..] The freespire repository doesn't get updated; I don't know if that's because of the Xandros buyout or not. Someone who was running it at another forum I participate in, liked it but finally dumped it because nothing was getting updated.

Not a big loss to the linux world I think and linux community has never been real keen to the idea of paying for desktop linux. Freespires only claim to fame was ability to use the Linspire repository.

For newbie to linux, probably PClinuxOS, Puppy, or Ubuntu would be my first choices. PClinux cause it just works and is super stable, they dont release half baked versions. Its very friendly to the less experienced.

Puppy is small and friendly with good but small community behind it, but it maybe confusing to some as it can be installed and used in an incredible number of ways where windows people are used to "the one way". Best for total newbie to use puppy for a while as a live cd before trying to install. Also the founder Barry Kauler is now retired and its continuing as a purely community effort now so see what happens with its developement. Quite possible it could stumble or stagnate. Time will tell though first version without Kauler is well on its way, nearing or in beta.

And Ubuntu just because it is so well supported with a very large community. PClinux and Ubuntu are about same size, but I found PClinux to run faster and be more friendly. Still that large community backing is nothing to sneeze at.

[Newboy]

ok, my head is spinning. i don't have the luxury of sitting at home reading and rereading this page w a good cup of coffee. instead, i'm here in a noisy library where i've got about...lessee...3 mins total.

bottom line, sounds like a fiasco if i get the linux one. altho...if there's no modem, sounds like a fiasco if i get the XP one either? USB modem is all fine and dandy, but if the forums are loaded w techies claiming they aren't detected, who am i to even try?

> And if you buy an eepc with linux, think they include a windows driver cd if you want to install windowsXP.

ok, this statement truly puzzles me. i thot we'd established that the $100 differential was simply b/c they skimped on the windows? and that windows in it's true form (i.e. non-"mini") would cost $100 (or $150 as you just said) to procure?

i understand all the no piracy comments, but why'd you go and then state they (might) include a FREE COPY of xp in there?

*konfoosed*

> I am still not sure why you are limited to Netzero.

NZ IS FREE.

Juno and others are limited to 10 hrs/mo.

NZ used to be, but they took away that restriction. I use it 24/7. no hacking involved.

[Newboy]

PS: I should amend the previous comment that barebones laptops begin at $349. Turns out that is an ACER pc w no CD/DVD drive, and questionable modem port!

So, basically the $299 eeepc w a full-sized screen.

Real laps (drives and all) seem to start around $449.

Here's a link for the eeepcs, btw:  http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?_d...amp;ks=960 

[I'd narrow down which one's I've been talking about, but the library's giving me the bum's rush!! NEXT TIME.]

[curious john]

Newboy wrote:

ok, my head is spinning. i don't have the luxury of sitting at home reading and rereading this page w a good cup of coffee. instead, i'm here in a noisy library where i've got about...lessee...3 mins total. bottom line, sounds like a fiasco if i get the linux one. altho...if there's no modem, sounds like a fiasco if i get the XP one either? USB modem is all fine and dandy, but if the forums are loaded w techies claiming they aren't detected, who am i to even try?

I have already pointed you to two possibilities for usb modem that are plug and play for most current linux distributions. If you are just sitting at home and not moving around, get an old external serial modem and a cheapie serial to usb converter cable. Look for one with the pl2303 chipset. Linux for nearly decade has supported that chipset and includes the module to make it work. Cables with that chipset are usually couple bucks more on ebay than cables with the ch341 chipset. The ch341 chipset cable however works on linux kernel 2.6.24 and newer. I got one and the included XP driver was a dud, but Puppy with the 2.6.25 kernel had no problem with it. If you look there are also a few serial modems with ability to do either serial or usb, they have the pl2303 chipset built in and work fine. The mini usb modems the size of a pack of gum work fine. The Zoom 3095 is a pain to set up as you have to compile the driver specifically for your linux kernel. The USR and Dell mini that look very simular are true plug and play. Again dont take my word for it, do a google with "eeepc usr 5637" and you will get posts on eeepc forums saying exactly that.

Newboy wrote:

o> And if you buy an eepc with linux, think they include a windows driver cd if you want to install windowsXP. ok, this statement truly puzzles me. i thot we'd established that the $100 differential was simply b/c they skimped on the windows? and that windows in it's true form (i.e. non-"mini") would cost $100 (or $150 as you just said) to procure?

Including the windows drivers is a cynical act as they know many people are going to install pirate versions of windows. And yes there are full size pirated versions of windows out there that you can find and download, but remember the eeepc doesnt have a hardrive it uses basically flash storage. Windows is large taking lot of this space and also uses swap files so lot of churning which will shorten life of flash storage.

Newboy wrote:

oi understand all the no piracy comments, but why'd you go and then state they (might) include a FREE COPY of xp in there? *konfoosed*

They DONT include a free copy of windows operating system, they include the drivers that windows XP needs for their machine. BIG DIFFERENCE. Again its theoretically for those who bought a retail copy of XP. The full retail copy gives you the righ to use it on both on one desktop machine and one laptop. This is only the full retail copy. The copy you get already installed on a pc or laptop from factory is only for that machine.

And again in real world they know people are going to use pirate copies of XP, either full or cut down.

Newboy wrote:

o> I am still not sure why you are limited to Netzero. NZ IS FREE. Juno and others are limited to 10 hrs/mo. NZ used to be, but they took away that restriction. I use it 24/7. no hacking involved.

Netzero may have some quirks where you havent experienced the 10hr limit, but if they were giving it away free, they wouldnt be also selling the same thing. There is the 10hr free Juno and the 10hr free Netzero. There is the $10 per monthJuno and the $10 per month Netzero. The software for the free 10hr on both Juno and NZ is same except for logo and name. The software for the $10 JUno and $10 Netzero is the same except for the logo and names. However the 10hr free software and the $10 per ,month pay software is different. Lots of info on free JUno and free Netzero up in the free isp section of Freedomlist.com. One guy even says that some months he gets more than 10hr free, some months not. And sometimes they offer "free weekends". But Netzero is no way, no how totally free unlimited. That was back in the good old days that only lasted couple years when there were many free dialup isps out there.